Post angio 9/13

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I just had an angiogram on 9/13. Yes Friday the 13th lol. Between my children getting a stomach bug and the nurses complaining about their F13th technical issues, I was very close to rescheduling. If the power went out, I would’ve been out too.

I’m new here. My name is Madeline.

This was my 2nd or 3rd angio since i had a 8mm bilobulated aneurysm repair in April 2023. The past year was a blur.

I had coils implanted with a pipeline stent and had some stenosis that had to keep getting checked out. I’m in my early 30s and the anxiety this gave me is absurd.

BUT. As of yesterday, it seems all is better and I’ll hopefully be able to get off the thinners and statins. Having 2 young boys, the thinners were quite the setback for me, so I’m very excited about that.

I am very groggy still which I assume is normal. I hate angiograms with a passion and my last few are kind of a blur. I’m very irritable towards my less than supportive support system which led me here. I just assume this is all normal. I went absolutely bonkers after one in November. I think the dry, (+/-) air pressure in my house made for a bad environment to heal a brain in.

I’m trying to forgive myself for being so tired and snappy, but I often end up feeling guilty about it. Its been a process.

Thanks for letting me air out my situation a little. I’m the only one I know going through any of this so its been a bit of a lonely road.

:sparkling_heart:

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Hi @Mad -

Welcome to the BA family!

I fully appreciate this is not a choice that anyone of us would make, but for the few months I have been here, I have found the group to be extremely supportive. So, first things first, you are NOT alone any longer; you have all of us to be there for you! We all seem to have our own unique journeys, but at the same time, we have so many similarities, odds are good someone will understand what you are going through.

Whenever you need to vent, ask questions, ask for healing energy (e.g., for upcoming angiograms), etc. we will be there to support you. Especially being a SAHM, you have a great deal to manage to begin with, much less including adding an aneurysm to the mix!

You are a fierce and strong woman, and you are doing a fantastic job already managing everything. Please be kind to yourself as well; you have been through a great deal, and - completely guessing - you are still processing all that you have been through.

Know that my medical knowledge is about zero, except for all that I learned after my SAH. :rofl: I know for sure I had an angiogram earlier this spring (may have had one earlier, long story as to why I am not sure!). I did not experience much grogginess afterwards that I recall, but I believe it is normal, and could be one of the effects of the anesthesia. Definitely if it continues longer than you expect, I would reach back out to your medical team to confirm. Me thinking out loud without any medical knowledge, I wonder what type/s of anesthesia that they had you on for your various angiograms? I wonder if there are other options instead, if, for example, you are having these types of reactions?

Keeping you in my thoughts, and hoping that you have a restful sleep tonight.

:heartpulse:

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Hey, @Mad, welcome to BAF Support! It’s great that you found us, though never ideal that we have to start looking for a place like this.

@FinWhaleFan is bang on about the folk round here. We are here to lean on each other, so relax, you’re in great company.

I think different people react to the contrast agent in different ways. I think it is fair to say that for pretty much everyone, a hangover-type headache ensues as the contrast gets filtered out, in the same way that a regular hangover takes a while to go away. If it’s more severe, it may be worth asking the doc next time (and hopefully there won’t need to be a next time) if it’s possible that you have a bad reaction to the contrast and they may be able to use something else. If you were sedated during the angiogram, then it could be related to the sedation. It may also be to do with which arteries in your brain the doc was looking at. My experience of angiograms is that depending on where the contrast material is injected, you get different effects: hot flush, see stars, feel nauseous, etc and it may be that where the doc has been flushing you with contrast is the reason for being overly groggy.

I had scintillating scotomas for about three weeks after my embolization and again for a shorter time after my check up angiogram, so the irritation of the contrast can last a few weeks.

I have a similar condition (not an aneurysm) and after my glue embolization it took me a long time to feel back to normal, so the actual feeling-back-to-ok after an embolization can take much longer than you’d reasonably expect.

Welcome!

Richard

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Welcome Madeline! Had to look up SAHM, but I get it now :crazy_face::rofl:. I’ve had a few angiograms and can definitely say they’re not my favorite thing in life; necessary, but definitely not up in my favorite list. Each one I’ve had, something has changed in me. I have to drink a lot of water and Gatorade to get everything flushed out for a few months it seems. I’m allergic to the dye so it is rather hard on me. It takes me at least 3 months to get back to where I was. The more angiograms, the longer it seemed to take.

@DickD Confused me. When I get the dye injected, it’s in an IV in my arm and it goes everywhere right along with my blood. Dr. Q-W looks at both sides of my brain and all its arteries. So for me, it’s not one place but maybe he meant where they put the IV needle in. I am easily confused.

I think @FinWhaleFan hit the nail on the head! We’re always here to support each other, that’s the way it works. I think more people have more empathy for TBI’s than for aneurysms just because more people know about them. But even that fades too soon whilst our brain is still recovering.

Dr. Quintero-Wolfe, my wonderful Neurosurgeon, has a mantra I always share and you may have read it herein another topic. Hydrate, eat protein, hydrate some more, rest, repeat. For me, it’s 3 bottles of 32 oz Gatorade and twice that in water plus at least 90 gms of protein a day after an angiogram. It took me a long time to figure out what protein I wanted to supplement with and ended up with Fair Life and Oikos yogurt. You might try that. But reach out to your doctor and ask.

Also try some relaxation breathing, there’s a ton of different styles on YouTube find one that works for you and practice it all the time until it becomes you. It’s a very handy skill to have when dealing with unsupportive support groups and other irritants in life.

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P.S. @Moltroub. I have to confess that I had to search for SAHM as well. :rofl: :rofl:

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Madeline,

Don’t be too hard on yourself, you’ve been through a lot. People think when you have things like this done, that it is “done”. For many of us, that’s not the case. The repair process, even endovascularly, has an effect on the brain. Not to mention the emotional toll associated with allowing a team of practical strangers undertake a fishing expedition in our most important organ. Then there are the follow up angiograms, also a little more invasive than a typical scan due to the high level of contrast. It’s all hard to process. It was my experience that it takes about a year for neurofatique ease after an uneventful endovascular repair. The angiograms can temporarily plunge me back into that, although the recovery is faster. Not at all immediate, more like a week or two, up to a month if i can’t baby myself. For some crazy reason my last angiogram had the easiest recovery, but you just never know.

Hang in there. Hopefully day by day you’ll feel improvement.

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When I had my first awake catheter angiogram on an x-ray table, the consultant interventional radiologist would warn me, “you’ll get a hot flush on the tongue” or “you might feel nauseous” as he navigated the catheter to different locations and flushed in the contrast. My assumption is that the flooding in of the contrast temporarily displaces a lot of blood, so you get a quite intense reaction from different parts of brain, depending on what bits of brain do, and how they are going to react when starved of oxygen briefly or otherwise irritated by the contrast.

All of the catheter angiogram is done with the catheter inserted in one location. It’s where the roving end of the catheter is that affects the sensations.

When used in an MRI machine, I think the contrast can be injected in just the one location and allowed to flow everywhere because the MRI is doing the slicing of the imagery. When on an x-ray table, I think the catheter has to be used to illuminate specific arteries because the imagery is all being presented on a single 2D plane.

Whichever method is used, iodine is definitely an irritant and some people are rather allergic to it. Gadolinium I think can be used as an alternate.

None of this is sound medical knowledge, just what I think I’ve understood from reading stories here or on another forum for the last 8 years. I’ve had catheter angiograms on an x-ray table three times myself. I’ve never had an MRI with contrast, so I’m guessing at how the contrast MRI is done, based on reading the many snippets of people’s experience on here.

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Interesting, I’ve read some members having odd sensations, I don’t remember if I was ever warned about any. I used to have the risks memorized having so many so close together. I’ve only been shot up with Gadolinium due to my allergy to iodine. I’ve had many MRI’s and CT’s with contrast. All three feel the same to me. Maybe a second or two of flushing and it’s done, I do t always feel that, but it’s as soon as they start it. I’ll have to ask at my appointment next year. If I’m understanding you correctly, in my mind the surgeon can’t stop the dye from going through the rest of your arteries and then the veins once it’s injected as it has to go with the flow. Like a drop of water in a creek that makes its way to the ocean.

I do think it’s amazing how a surgeon can thread that catheter up from an artery all the way to the brain without seeing what they’re doing. I’m glad they have light hands, my arteries are torturous (squiggly). Thanks so much Mr. Richard!

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Well, I’m sure they’re using the x-ray to see where the branches are and then push a little bent wire out the end of the catheter at the junction, twist it to poke into the correct opening, then move forwards into that branch. So it’s not blind. It’s all done using x-rays.

My interventional radiologist had zero hair when I saw him one time. I was convinced he’d been playing in the x-ray theatre really too long and lost his own hair :scream: I do have him down as very dedicated to his cause.

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I do have him down as very dedicated to his cause.

Seriously, Richard!

As much as I praise my neurosurgeon for my journey (well-deserved), I cannot forget how huge a role my neuroradiologist played in my many miracles, since he is the one responsible for my coiling, and who is stuck with me for general maintenance ever since. :grin: Their steady hands are just amazing - with or without the use of technology to guide them! I sometimes feel like they are underappreciated compared to neurosurgeons, but what wonders these radiologists work!

Even pre-shunt, I remember being absolutely fascinated seeing an image of my cerebral arteries. To my mind, he turned it off way too soon - I could have stared at that image for hours on end! Hmm, let me think, do I need some new artwork around here … :thinking:

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We both need to remember that this is @Mad’s space to cry out about her recent angiogram.

I agree, for some of us, going into theatre is simply terrifying. For others of us, it is fascinating. Sometimes both!

Everything to do with brain surgery takes longer to recover from than you’d think, so patience is probably the main thing we all need.

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You are right, @DickD.

@Mad, I do sincerely apologize to you for taking over the space. Please let us know how you are doing when you get some time!

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Wow Thanks for the welcomes! My kids had a stomach bug this past weekend and I felt I just didn’t sleep enough after this angio. Sorry I’m only just responding now. I never thought i would still be dealing with the stent and coiling. But I saw my radiologist today and I was given great news!

“Stable obliteration of right internal carotid artery transitional aneurysm. Neointimal hyperplastic stenosis almost completely resolved.”

I wish I found this community earlier. This was the longest 1½ years of my life. I had a baby, bought and moved into a house, had an angio and had my aneurysm repair surgery within 4 months of eachother. I went a little bananas this past winter but I’m finally starting to feel less anxious and I’m ready to be less fragile. My toddler is quite the literal bruiser.

@DickD @Moltroub I did have to hold my breath and felt the flushing of the contrast. It was weird, but the lightning show was cool. I do remember enjoying the xray of my skull the first time i had an angio. I was too nervous after the first time to focus on anything. The first couple made my arm ache terribly but this last one just gave me a sore wrist. I do think the contrast doesn’t agree with me, and
I know anesthesia makes me nauseous. I’m generally a sleep person. I blame the small tia I had, but I’m pretty sure I’ve always been a napper, so I’m not surprised when I’m extra tired afterwards.

@Judi I could’ve written that response almost word for word. That is exactly how I feel right now. If my toddler decides to try sleeping again, I think I’ll be okay lol.

@FinWhaleFan my radiologist is my favorite person. Like, I would invite him to my bbq’s if it wasn’t weird lol. He’s the only dr on my entire journey that took this seriously. Im doing much better as of today :slight_smile:

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Please don’t worry about that. I enjoy reading about everyones experiences. It definitely helps me feel less alone.

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Great news! On the results and how you’re feeling!

I’ve asked several times for a screen so I can watch Dr. Q-W snake through my arteries but she always says no, I may just have to tell her she’s being such a toddler :joy:

So you and @FinWhaleFan have a neurosurgeon and a Neuro-radiologist? I don’t think it would be weird at all. We used to have a dinner every year thanking those who supported us since I ruptured, some faces change, some don’t. Always try to have it on the day I ruptured. We’ve invited Dr. Q-W and Ms. Ryann, while they don’t come, they appreciate the invite. They have taken gifts I’ve made and I appreciate that. I made their families some chopsticks and then carved a couple comfort birds. The pandemic and buying a new place has stopped those dinners, we need to get back to them. Maybe we need to do a grill out instead of dinner, it’s a bit of a drive for them.

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Thank you!!

This is what is listed under his name;

Chief, Section of Neurointerventional Radiology
Diagnostic Radiology, Neurointerventional Radiology, Cardiovascular and Interventional Radiology

He’s the only person I’ve seen since having a baby. I saw many other people throughout my pregnancy, but my last dr referred me to the chief of radiology and I never looked back. He’s also the only one who I felt truly took my thoughts seriously.

I have considered making him gifts. He retires next year so I’d like to make him something. I’ve been dabbling in polymer clay, but I’m a bit of a perfectionist so we’ll see how it goes lol

Btw, I can just barely see the screen from around the xray machine, but decided its best if i didn’t move my eyes that far to the left just to get a glimpse lol.

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That’s correct, I have/had both. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

@Mad and @Moltroub , I completely understand the feelings of gratitude! They don’t know it, but not a day goes by that I don’t thank them for this gift (behind their backs of course since I know they don’t want a message every day). @Mad, we do have a number of artists in the group (not me!), so you’ll have to share images of your artwork - I am sure it would be very healing for you to do as well!

@Mad, what an amazing story to have all that happen in such a short time (baby, house, move, angio, and aneurysm repair!). You are truly an awesome woman, and a fantastic role model to your boys! Don’t worry about responding quickly: we all understand that energy levels fluctuate dramatically day-by-day, so you just respond when you are best able.

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In case you didn’t know, you can name your doctor if they’re good for you and the hospital they work at. It helps other members find who we think are good surgeons. There’s here What doctors have you liked (positive reviews only, please) - #21 by Judi just add to the list. We just can’t blast any medical professional by name, we don’t want any lawsuits!

I just shorten mine to Dr. Q-W because when I ruptured she was going by Dr. Quintero-Wolfe and it’s easier to type Q-W. I do it in my portal too!:rofl:. With the structure change she’s now going just by Wolfe but I like saying her full name, it dances in my head. Yes I proudly admit how weird I am. She’s actually the one who strongly encouraged me to get back to woodcarving even though I can’t visualize anymore. I just take simple patterns to use. I even put a sawmill together after I ruptured! Putting one together in the winter isn’t fun even if it’s in the South btw. It took me a few months because I couldn’t remember the directions and had to keep referring to the manual and making lots of calls to the company.

I don’t think they care how good it is, I think they just like to see us being able to do something. Even a handwritten letter or note goes a long way. Enjoy your hobby, and share it please!

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You’re an artist in research!

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I just posted his information! Thanks for letting me know :slight_smile:

I think its all just so new to me. It almost feels like a dream. I definitely suffer a bit from imposter syndrome too. I was lucky enough to not have a rupture. I never expected it to bother me so much mentally tho. So I’m kinda all over the place emotionally.

That’s definitely the mentality I’d like to have about my art lol I’m my own worst critic. The artist’s curse, right? But I’ve started to let myself be a little more free in my art. I started a daily art journal since turning 34 a little bit ago and i think that helps me a lot. I’ll post some of my doodles when I feel more comfortable lol

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