I am having an angiogram and embolization next week for an unruptured 4mm saccular aneurysm on my anterior communicating artery. This is a non-invasive procedure. I am 37 years old and overall in good health. I’m nervous about the procedure as I have the option between the Web device being implanted and Seal it device being implanted. One is in trial and the other has not been out for more than five years. I’m just getting nervous and would love to hear your experience with having an embolization and how your recovery has been.
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Hi @tahara05,
I belong to the other team (ruptured club), and my treatments have been coil and stent, so I am unable to provide you with any insight on WEB v. Seal-it.
That being said, I (in some smal way) can understand the feelings of watching and waiting, so I feell for you! During my journey, I was encouraged to take up meditation/mindfulness to help relieve some anxiety and stress - I will say that my wearables suggest it does work! 
One thing that is emphasized in all of this is to focus on your breathing, as a way of easing that stress. There are a ton of them out there, but my favorite is box breathing, only because it is so easy to remember! There are 4 stages, just like 4 sides of a box. 1. Breath in for 5 seconds. 2. Hold for 5 seconds. 3. Breathe out for 5 seconds. 4. Hold for 5 seconds. Repeat as needed. Anecdotally, I have heard that Navy SEALS use this technique, so if it is good enough for them, it is certainly good enough for me! I am also linking a quick video, if of interest.
Quick box breathing - with trees
Know that I will be sending out healing tohoughts and prayers to you. Please let us know how it went when you get a moment. You are going to do GREAT!
Fin Whale Fan 
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Thank you for this! 
Good Morning Tara! Best advice I can offer right this moment is for you to take deep slow breaths, inhaling down to your diaphragm, hold for count of five and exhale slowly and fully. Sounds sorta wacky, but relaxation breathing of any type that you can master will reduce BP, decrease anxiety, depression, some other things I can’t recall right now. If you’re a dog lover, you understand the procedure, dogs are really good at going into a relaxed state pretty quickly. At least mine even with their zooming the yard at full speed can seem to stop and take a few deep slow breaths once they get their wind back and go at it again with all the happiness they can muster. If I match my breathing to when they’re resting, it can make me fall asleep better than anything else I know.
I have had several angiograms for the one ruptured LICA bifurcation aneurysm I had. Little bugger doesn’t want to stay occluded. The second to the last, I also had a new type of stent installed. (Or is it placed). Either word, it’s in my LACA now along with a whole lot of coils. For angiograms, best thing I did for myself was stay hydrated well before and after. It helps them find your artery and getting the needles in without too much discomfort. Always breathe out when the needle goes in so your muscles stay relaxed - this is very important so let the RN know what you want to do and get to breathing slow. Even a half way decent RN will match it, an awesome one won’t even talk to you, just watch and poke. I prefer that style of stick.
I have the Neuroform Atlas Stent, one of our members was actually in the trial I think the year before or at least several months prior. Guess we both had to wait for one to be developed that could be used on us. I wasn’t a good candidate for the others. The WEB device has been around for a bit over 13 years, perhaps they’ve got an improvements version, always a good sign! The field of Neurosurgery is always growing and for that I’m really thankful. I had never heard of the SEAL, so thank you for teaching me something new! In my little world, learning something new means it’s going to be a great day.
Oddly enough, we rarely use the word “embolization” but that’s exactly what it is. Good for you on the correct terminology. I went straight to thinking blood clot or air pocket🤪
I ruptured so in the same club as @FinWhaleFan but each and every time I had to go get an angiogram I tried to get my house and House in order. We even had our wills updated the time I was told I might have a craniotomy. The paralegal got it the papers to the courthouse minutes before we arrived at the hospital, our elder attorney called! It was nail biting for me. I do as much of the heavy house work or yard work as possible and help with general cleaning. We make sure I have simple meals to heat up as I’m not allowed to cook unsupervised. I also have a strong belief in a Higher Power and though we have daily conversations, I still check in. I want my Neurosurgeon and her team to be on their toes and for my piece of mind it helps me to ask God to watch over them. The day of my procedure, I generally make sure Dr, Quintero-Wolfe has slept well, eaten breakfast (sometimes I’m in longer than expected) and most importantly used the restroom. I don’t want her to be doing the potty dance whilst running a catheter around in my brain🤣
We also usually go out for a nice meal the night before I’m going to get treated with coils and whatever because we stay at a hotel in the city where the hospital is. I am allergic to the dye, so I get pretreated with prednisone. We couldn’t go to the hotel when I had my stent installed due to the pandemic. It was a bit difficult getting the medication timed perfectly, I ended up having to add a couple Benadryl and the John gave me something else. First time I had no allergic reaction! If it’s just a diagnostic angiogram, we go out for whatever meal is up next even though they make me eat something before I’m discharged and I get to go to my favorite tea shop.
Please enjoy the weekend and try to give yourself a time out from thinking about the upcoming procedure. There’s so much more to life than our aneurysms.
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Thank you for your advice and input!
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@tahara05
Welcome to our forum. It’s totally normal to be anxious before this surgery. I agree with everything that has been said by my fellow friends in the “ruptured club” to which I also belongs. I had to have a second surgery with stent and additional coils six months after my rupture. I took walks almost every day to calm my worried mind prior to the surgery. If you like to knit or crochet that might work too.
Get your home in order like @Moltroub said. What I have learned is that it is best to dress in soft trousers, like jogging pants when it’s time for your surgery. If they access the artery in your groin during the procedure, you will be a little bit sore from it and it’s the most comfortable clothing you can wear for the first few days.
Sunglasses are also good to have handy for your car ride home. You may be sensitive to light for a while and some of us have also experienced some flashing lights. You have to be careful with walking the first week after your procedure. You will get instructions from your doctor about what to do and not to do.
Remember that this is a procedure to save lives so you don’t rupture in the future. My neurosurgeon assured me that it would be a walk in the park compared to my experience with the rupture.
He was right, it wasn’t as bad as I had thought.
You also need someone to drive you home and stay with you for the first 24 hours. If you have someone who can check on you on a daily basis for a few more days after this, I strongly recommend it.
You can read about my story in my profile if you like.
Please get back to us as often you want and tell us how everything went.
You will be fine 
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Thank you for your kind words and encouragement!
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Hi @tahara05,
I am also in the ruptured club – definitely try to stay in the non-ruptured club 
I was also coiled and stented with the FredX on both aneurysms: my left side ruptured and the right side “annie” (as we call them on here) is closer in size to yours. I had that one done three months after the ruptured one. Generally, at least for me, the doc would say that you are mostly recovered after three months… Of course, as with everything and everyone, each case is different depending on the location of your annie.
As far as being nervous, yes, very normal and definitely expected. What I can say that is somewhat less unnerving, is that you are wheeled into the Interventional Radiology room with a giant monitor alongside the stretcher(?), shuffled over, and they make you as comfortable and warm as they can, and then next second, you’re out! No more time for nerves That’s my second “sweat smile,” which reminds me that if you can, in between the well-advised breathing above, think about beautiful things, your loving family and good thoughts… maybe even your dogs. It goes a long way. Then next “second” you will be in recovery. Two things I would highly recommend to bring with you: eye mask or scarf to cover your eyes from the wonderful fluorescent lighting that peeps through when you are trying to nap, and second thing are ear plugs or noise-cancelling ear buds – recovery rooms can sometimes have louder neighbors or just the nurses shuffling about and taking care of business. Usually, you stay one night for observation and then you are on your way home for puppy love. My Bernadoodle is usually excitedly jumpy when I get home, but when I get back from the hospital, he knows and he snuggles gently on my leg if I am sitting in the Living Room. For me, after the second procedure, it took about a month before I felt like I could do more than a half block walk outside. Just give yourself grace and patience. And per advice to me from @Moltroub, make sure you are getting good protein, especially after recovery. I read somewhere to stay away from red meats – so I try to get salmon when I can, if not, turkey and chicken. I also started a taking this protein powder with my tea in the morning. Chobani and others also have protein packed yoghurts.
Positive thoughts sending your way…
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One quick PS: Not sure if you live in a multi-level home, but if you do, you may be restricted from stairs for a short bit if they go in the groin. Even if they plan to do it radially (wrist), things may have changed when you wake up, so just plan for the groin, and you will be just fine! (Groin recovery typically takes a litte bit longer (~7 days) than the wrist (~2-3 days) doing exactly what @oct20 recommends - taking it slow and easy.)
I completely agree with @Kimoy - it goes so quick, and then it is over!! Give it a little bit of time, and you will be back outdoors just in time for spring!
Fin Whale Fan
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@Kimoy
I have a similar experience with the surgery. I was in the pre operative room. The nurse came to my bed and said, I will give you something to take the edge off, before we wheel you into the operating room. I remember that I said that this sounds good. Two seconds later, I was out 
!
My next memory is that I was in bed and my husband and the neurosurgeon were standing by my bed, they said that it was over and everything went well.
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Thank you so much for this you gave me some really good advice! I am glad you are doing well.
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i have bad anxiety and while waiting for my turn in the OR, i was surrounded by my kids, my mom and fiancé. although i was still very much anxious, im a religious person, and prayers was the only thing i asked of my family and friends that knew.
when it was finally time to wheel me in, i was scared, nervous, anxious, but i kept praying and kept positive thoughts. in the OR, it was cold and unsettling, they brought me warm blankets. i can hear them prepping which made reality kick in. mask went in and i struggled a little with it because i didn’t like the smell. but before i knew it, i was out. next i was in ICU and it’s mostly blur but i had my mom and fiancé overnight with me.
we had a hotel room due to traveling out of town for surgery. i slept for like 2 days. in and out of it.
traveled back home after and was still sleeping 99% of the time, only awake long enough to take my meds . it was a rough 2 and some weeks of recovery.
i’m still healing and learning this post surgery me. it will be a year this march. (i’m in the unruptured club with coils thru angiogram )
i will keep you in prayers. 
wishing you a safe surgery and recovery.
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Hi @tahara05 -
Since you mentioned last week that you are having surgery “next week,” I just wanted to send a message and let you know that I am thinking of you and holding you close, since I take it that you will soon be on your way. You are going to do a great job, and I am sending many healing thoughts and prayers your way!
When YOU get the chance, please let us know how it went. We’ll be thinking of you!!
Fin Whale Fan
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You’re correct as you usually are! Speaking of rain, did I mention you need to hydrate before and keep hydrated well after @tahara05? That and protein will get you as right as rain and not the ice we are told to expect once the procedure is over.
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Hi, Im in the non-ruptured group. I had 2 aneurysms. They were able to get one through a coiling procedure. That one was just like an angiogram and I was fully awake. I was told that it would be just like an angiogram but with a slight headache. The headache for me was alot more than slight, I think it was because I wasn’t as fully hydrated as I should have been. I also went back to work (work from home desk job) much sooner than I should have - 3 days later- hindsight, probably should have taken at least a week off. They had to put a stent in and I then went on blood thinners for 3 months. I then got the clipping for the 2nd aneurysm, which was done with a craniotomy. I took 6 weeks off from work and wasn’t long enough. I was advised I would feel like I ran a marathon, which was completely accurate. 3 weeks after I walked from the car (my husband drove) to inside the grocery store, I made it to the 1st isle and had to go back to the car as I was out or breath. I didn’t realize how long the recovery from a craniotomy would be. I got advice that to build up my endurance by walking around the house, take a break and then walk some more. I continued that method and built my endurance up to being able to run miles. Im now about 4 years post op. I am very thankful they were caught and were treated before rupture as the recovery process is MUCH faster. Remember to stay hydrated and to not rush back to work, focus on recovering.
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Hi Tara,
I had an unruptured aneurysm and had a similar procedure in June 2021 as yourself. I did not have headaches except as described below. Since 2018 i have taken magnesium, vit D3 and vit k and B12. I have not experienced any headaches since the incident of June 2018 unrelated to the aneurysm (but luckily those headaches of June 2018 caused my annie to be discovered). Have a wonderful treatment and recovery.
Aneurysm Story:
June 2018 after four days suffering from a cough-induced headache, went to ER, worried i was having a stroke. After much testing, over night observation, it was determined I was experiencing a rare cough-induced headache. It took two rounds of prednisone and two months for the headache to disappear. While at the ER, MRI scan showed i had an unrelated 4 mm anni in my left carotid artery behind my left eye. Treatment was watch and wait with annual MRA scans. Nov 2020 scan showed anni was 8h x5w x4neck. On 3/19/21 had diagnostic angiogram. Agreed a flow diverter was best for location. 6/23/21, at age 62, I had a Surpass Flow Diverter implanted. Catheter through right groin. Angio-Seal to plug puncture wound. 6/24/21 developed hematoma near puncture Angio-Seal site. Manual pressure applied 30 mins. Sandbagged 6 hrs. Major bruising. Hematoma swelling gone. Fantastic care at HUP, Penn Medicine. Discharged 6/25/21. 7/2/21, no issues with head. Still dealing with pain in right leg at Angio-Seal site (size of Almond Joy, not a small pea!), and healing the massive bruising on right thigh, groin, pelvic area, and other bruises on both arms, ankles, and right shoulder. My main concern is the soreness and sometimes throbbing around Angio-Seal and at times tingling in the right leg. Movement of right leg still uncomfortable. I feel lucky the anni was found and i was able to have it treated.
7/3/21
Good morning! Yes, I am improving each day. My chin bruise is almost gone. The bruises on my arms, hands, shoulder, ankles are improving. No head issues, yay. My big problem is my right groin, leg, and pelvis. I have massive bruising there, my inside right thigh is bruised from the groin to knee, and still purple-black color. That is where I had a hematoma forming in the hospital and I had to be sandbagged for six hours. I have a bump the size of an almond joy candy where they plugged up the artery, in the crease where my leg meets my torso. That plug is made of collagen and is supposed to dissolve in 30-90 days. It is rather sore in that area. Overall not too bad considering it is normal pain without pain meds.
On July 25, 2021, a month out from my surgery, my family flew from New Jersey to northern Italy for 8 days to visit my son’s host family. All bruising was mostly gone. I had no problems with flying, I was still taking Brillanta blood thinner and one baby aspirin each day, I had no trouble carrying my backpack suitcase and doing quite a bit of walking on the trip.
In September 2021, I had a MRI with and without contrast. The blood was flowing freely through the flow diverter and the aneurysm was mostly occluded. I was instructed to continue with the Brillanta and aspirin until the 6 mo angiogram in January 2022.
January 2022, the angiogram showed the aneursym as fully occluded. I was told to stop taking Brillanta and continue with the baby aspirin each day.
I had follow-up MRIs in January 2023 and February 2025. The blood flows through the diverter, the aneuresym is fully occluded and there are no new aneurysms. I have a telehealth with my neurologist on Thursday.
I have not experienced any negative side effects that I am aware of. I feel very lucky that my annie was discovered and treated without rupture or other mishaps.
Hindsight and further research about the Angio-Seal I wished I had the opportunity to not have. The Angio-Seal was invented to save Drs time in the Cath-Lab. Angio-Seals have about the same failure rate, about 5% if I recall correctly, as the Gold Standard of a Dr or Resident manually applying pressure to the entry area for 30 minutes and sand bagging the pelvic area. The funny thing is, that when the nursing staff wanted to remove my catheter and have me urinate in the toilet, as I gently sat on the toilet, the angio-seal was loosened, i developed a hematoma in my groin area, then a Dr needed to come in and manually provide the correct pressure in my groin area for 30 minutes and I needed a cat-scan and sonogram of the area. My right thigh, groin and upper pelvic area was where I had my worse bruising. Ice packs will be your best friend for a couple of days. Two weeks later I needed to get another sonogram of that area to check for bleeding. I was very sore and it hurt to walk the first week. I slept on our first floor for the first 4-5 days. Each week got better and i was healed enough to fly to Italy 30 days after the procedure.It was at least two months for those bruised areas to be healed. Apply hyaluronic acid serum and serum with peptides to heal the bruised areas.
Best of luck to you! Remember you are lucky to be treating an un ruptured annie. Cheers to you!
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@Allemap -
I most definitely agree with this statement!! 
(I know, we are all blindly loyal to our medical teams with good reason, and they are ALL amazing at what they do - but HUP/PennMed saved my life many times over - they really are phenomenal!)
Fin Whale Fan
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Yes! Dr. Jan-Karl Burkhard at Penn Medicine HUP is a fantastic neurosurgeon. His team of residents, nurses, radiologists, techs, anesthetists are very talented, knowledgeable, professional, kind, caring. I am very grateful for all the people at Penn HUP and my care team 
Cheers to you!
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I am in the ruptured club also. I have had two procedures, once after rupture and one before. I am sure we all agree here, that you are very fortunate to have caught this before hand. The recovery after a rupture can be a years long and difficult process and is very imposing on family.
The recovery from the same exact procedure before a rupture is about 48 hours. It’s much easier than getting a tooth pulled by a mile. Please keep that in mind when you consider your current situation.
Of course you are nervous as anyone would be, but this is all about perspective. 20 years ago we would have all had craniotomies. Now it’s a poke in the leg and a 1 inch bandage.
I was very nervous also, although I don’t remember much about the first one. If I had any advice it would be to take this one day at a time and know that you are in good hands. Know that you are one of the luckiest people on the planet and that luck and a great doctor are going to get you through this without any major issues. As for the device you choose, I’m not familiar with your choices, so keep doing your research and in the end put your faith in the providers. They know what they are doing.
Good luck!
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Hi everyone!
I’m home from the procedure. I had the angiogram and embolization with the Trial of the Seal It Device on Monday. I had a wonderful team at the Cleveland Clinic for my recovery overnight. I was discharged around 4:30PM on Tuesday.
I was dealing with some throbbing in my head and headache on Tuesday. Wednesday morning woke up and tried to shower, almost passed out and got super queasy. Heart rate was 48. I laid down and was fine after about a half hour. I spent most of the day with a pretty intense headache and just managed with Tylenol and lots of sleep.
I woke up today, Thursday, feeling better. The Leg they went into the groin gets a little tingly at times, I’m sure it’s part of recovery. Today I’m definitely a little more dizzy but able to get around better and no headaches so far.
I appreciate all the input and advice leading up to the procedure. It helped to be prepared and knowledgeable before and after. I’ll have a follow-up appt in six weeks and then I’ll be monitored every three months.
They did find another aneurysm during the procedure. It’s 1.5mm in anterior choroidal artery. They also mentioned I have very weak vessels - I am 37 and up until getting Covid in 2020, I was a very healthy human being. I do see a functional medicine doctor to help with the long lasting symptoms and dysregulated system since having Covid. I can’t help but wonder if all of this is stemmed partly from that. I’m guessing we will be monitoring the new aneurysm as it’s small and I’ll be in every three months.
They did go through my groin but I will say the area where they put the arterial pressure line in my wrist is actually quite tender when flexed.
Overall, I’m happy with the outcome. Bummed that there is another one but at least I can monitor that one.
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