When I was first diagnosed I was set to have mine coiled. The day before my dr did a 3d cat scan and determined I had to have a craniotomy instead. I was very upset because I knew it was a much harder recovery and more invasive. However, I am so glad it happened this way since I have heard so many stories where the coiling didn’t work or else it had to be repeated . It may seem harmless, but the truth is they are still inside your brain touching things and it is not without repercussion , the brain does not like to be touched or moved. I also did not want to have to stay on medication the rest of my life. My dr. Said clipping is the most accurate and time proven method of repair, so I won’t have to repeat this unless I develop another one. I would do it over again to avoid repeated anesthesia and more coiling issues and meds. It just makes better sense to me, again, just saying… Best of luck. I would get a second opinion for sure.
Peter Wilson said:
Can you ask to have it clipped? I know its more invasive but its permanent once done. I had my ruptured Basilar aneurysm clipped in 2011. I have read a lot about the coiling process and I dont think they have perfected it yet. I keep seeing people going back after coiling to have something done at a later date.
When my wife arrived at Swedish in Denver, they immediately took us into conference. If coiling would be best, they would do it before they spoke to me again. If coiling would not be best, they would clip either that evening or the next day. As it turned out they coiled. The recovery was long, since the aneurysm had ruptured, so there were lots of consequences.
At the six-month check, the coiling had compacted, so they coiled more and installed a stent. She was in CCU one night, the next day we left, and all was fine. At the 18-month check, the surgeon said the repair was 'perfect.' She is to return next June for a 3.5 year check; if all is fine, that is the last check-up.
I really do think communication is so important. Our doctors communicated well, encouraged our questions, kept us in the loop (even daily conferences while in the hospital), and we had confidence in them. If you are not satisfied with the level of communication, you may have to initiate it, or try somewhere else.
This is common I believe. I had coiling Nov 2012 and again Nov 2013. My 2 year checkup angiogram is scheduled next Tuesday. I'm hoping no further will be needed but if it is I will not hesitate to do it. I don't understand why she had hair loss. I didn't lose any hair. I'm still on Plavix which makes me bruise easily. I may stay on that for a while because I also have a stent
I have had no complications from 2 coiling surgeries. Clippin is more invasive and I believe has more complications. I would not hesitate to fix an aneurysm with coiling. It's really an easy procedure and if it keeps you from having a rupture it's well worth it. A rupture can take your life or leave you disabled Corinne MCH said:
Janice Gams said:
Interesting that some MDs encourage communication, even by email. I'm lucky to get 3 minutes with my neurosurgeon who seems afraid to say much, even tho I have 3 A's. I am avoiding coiling as long as I can, given all the complications. May seek a second opinion.
My ruptured aneurysm was coiled in April 2000. After experiencing a seizure while driving on January 17, 2014 they ran several test to find what had caused the seizure. The aneurysm was not the cause of the seizure.Through these test they found that my coiling had compressed and there was a small aneurysm growing beside it. I had a pipeline stent inserted on March 27. After my 6 month follow angiogram everything looks great. I feel through each event we go through our lives we find strength and a new meaning in life. I feel so blessed that because of the seizure they were able to locate this problem. Prayers to you and your mother as you move forward with your decision!
Prayers for both you and your mom! I had my aneurysm coiled, then the coils started compressing and moving down out of the annie almost three years later. I felt like the world was ending. No one had told me that things like this could happen. Then they stented and all is now good! I know it is a struggle that feels like it won't end, but look on the bright side - glad they found it before something worse happened. I understand your struggle, and your fears---sending prayers!!!
After three rounds of coiling of "an enormous" aneurysm in two years. I am scheduled for a pipeline stent on Friday. Not an easy thing to live with but I will do whatever it takes to minimize my risks, hopefully this will do the trick. All the best to your Mom.
hi em! I am so sorry to hear the bad news, are they calling it compaction? by the way it sounds it was an incomplete job in a bad location?, did they have trouble filling the space? Call the surgeons office- the nurse should be happy to answer or ask the dr. The risk question esp needs to be addressed by a professional-The folks should be telling you imo Anyway mine compacted and needed redoing but mine was sah emergency- we are all different here so you cant really compare apples and oranges, tc xoxo we are mainly here for support not medical advice, please let us know xoxo
I had coiling/stent done 3 years ago and have it checked annually - just saw my surgeon in October. My original surgeon (whom I really loved) moved out of state last year, but he had always told me that if they compacted, he would just add more coils. I know a lot of people here in the past had re-coiling that was successful. According to the Mayfield Clinic: "Aneurysm recurrence after coiling occurs in 34% of patients [3,4]. Recurrence happens if coils do not completely block off the aneurysm or if the coils become compacted within the aneurysm. A recurrence may not be significant enough to require additional treatment. If a major portion of the aneurysm remains unfilled, additional coils or a surgical clip can be placed to stop the growth. Overall, 10% of patients will undergo a second treatment to place additional coils, usually within the first year."
I am surprised by your doc's statement that he was only able to coil 70% and not the whole thing. I would definitely get a 2nd opinion. He should have completely closed off the annie the first time. If they have compacted, then that is different. The location of mine carries a compaction rate of a little higher than other locations, however, so far, my annie is secure. Lots of luck - hope you get answers soon. Sherri
We all have such personal opinions from known issues...our own/others...
Depending on the doctoring...the records of the initial should qualify its completion status...and the prognosis... Some of us have shared / compared med records....and, the quality (composition) in the ease of reading to the extreme confusion in a sentence/paragraph, the ICD and CPT #'s used...and, the length of time of the procedure...whether there was general anesthesia...vs minimally invasive procedure...
You may want to ask more questions of the doc as to the cause of the 30% status...compared to what percentage at the initial completion...and, what was explained at that time to your mom/family.. and noted in her records of that initial procedure...
Presumably...if blood is yet entering the aneurysms (?) ...something more has to be done...(?)
And, that may be back to the options...depending on the location of the aneurysm, its size/shape...
You may want to discuss w/your mother for the questions to ask the doc...including what will assure this next time, that the aneurysm will be adequately filled...
Wishing you the best... and, that you will keep us updated...
The size, shape and location is one of the main questions needed to be asked to your doctor. I have had three coilings after a sah. The third coiling was incomplete due to abnormal shape of the Annie. So it’s not that irregular.
Are your mom’s doctors UW-Harborview? They are highly skilled, but understaffed and don’t communicate well, so do advocate for your mom. My aneurysm initially ruptured, so coiling was the emergency procedure (happened on Maui & I was flown to Oahu to have emergency surgery at Queen’s Medical Center, excellent treatment all the way around!) My research said coiling is a good emergency treatment, but may not last in the long term. So I was a little prepared for when my aneurysm grew or coils compacted. The interventional neuroradiologist that had done the angiogram recommended more coils. I wanted to wait & get a 2nd opinion from a neurosurgeon, so I did & clipping was recommended for long term & I had it done. Doctors do have different opinions based on their specialties, for me I was willing to go through crainotomy for best long term treatment. Replumbing made more sense than adding more plugs to the hole. During surgery my left carotid artery bled & was stitched. I was told it was another aneurysm growing, so I am thankful I chose the clipping. It’s scary to think if I’d gone with coiling, and the artery bled then, it might be a different outcome. Yes the recovery and deficits have been quite a journey, I am truly grateful I am still here, and the love and support of my sons, family, friends, community, and BAF Keep advocating and asking questions for your mom, and I hope the best treatment and outcome for your mom and family.
Like many of the others, I've had coiling and stent procedures after ruptured anny and 2 unruptured annies. I've had the compaction problem, too. I wouldn't change a thing.
Clipping IS invasive but it may be the best option. Sometimes, coiling is. It really depends on the specifics of the anny (and the doctor's comfort level with the procedures). You've gotta make up your own mind, based on all these factors. I would strongly encourage you to get more than 1 or even 2 opinions.
Hi - I had a ruptured aneurysm in June of 2005. I had the coiling procedure completed and was told that I would have to have a second surgery in August. So two months later additional coils were added. The physician explained that he wanted to allow the coils to compact and then add more coils. For the rupture and first coiling I was in the hospital for nearly one month. For the second surgery I was there for just 3 nights. My follow up angiograms have all been fine. I don’t recall the bruising. However, I did have some hair loss. But it has all come back. I wish you and your Mom good luck and a quick recovery.
Hi, I’m in Australia. I had a bad rupture July 2013, I have to have surgery to check the coils next June for compaction and to look at another aneurysm close by. As the others have said here, there are many variables that the surgeon has to take into account to get the best results for your mum. It’s scary and a worry, but be assured that they want your Mum to come out as well as is humanly possible, ask your questions and get opinions and be comfortable with the answers as much as you can be. It’s a miracle that you still have your mother with you, look to the positives, it’s something we have to do every day because so many of us don’t make it. All the best, I hope all goes well.
Wow, I've read most of the replies and I say most because a lot are similar - mine included. I'll try to be brief for you! I had a ruptured aneurysm this past Feb and had coiling done. No choice since it was an emergency. I just had 14 more coils added this October due to the previous ones compacting. The doctor explained that as my blood is going through my artery it's basically pounding on the coils and that can cause compaction because the coils are soft. So to me it makes sense that some folks would need more coils at some point. I have high blood pressure so I imagine the pressure was greater in my case and of course where my aneurysm is located and all that. I do take medication for my blood pressure. I could not have clipping done because my aneurysm is close to another artery and if it got damaged I could have possible paralysis. So, although I like the idea that once it's clipped it's done, I didn't consider it option for me. One other option was a pipeline and frankly, I chickened out on that this time. Hoping the additional coils have worked but if I need the pipeline down the road so be it. It was such a disappointment to find I needed to have additional surgery but not unusual and given it wasn't an emergency this time I felt better about it. The procedure itself is the same and I had some bruising but not a lot and no more hair loss. Yes, I did lose hair the first time but that was partly because I had so many damned CT Scans and the surgery lasted 8 hours which wasn't the norm so I had a lot more radiation. I would ask questions and more questions of the doctors until you and your mom feel right about the coiling and don't be afraid to ask repeat questions until you are satisfied with the answers. As you can see from all the responses here, there is a different answer for each of us so remember your mom needs to do what she feels is right for her and with your support you can get through it. Please let us know how it goes.
Hi emjenkins, First off all you have to think many factor before go for surgery. Your mom age and health and fitness conditions. Evaluate Cardiac ECG and other medical factors.
My personal opinion is if they are planning for clipping then NO would be my answer if your mom crossed 50 years of age.
Because coiling has many post surgery complications.
My basilar tip aneurysm was coiled in May 2011. No stent. Stenting is not done automatically on everyone. All went well. However IN April 2014 had MRA to check it and it had grown. i had no symptoms. Due to size and location, craniotomy was not an option. I had 3 neurosurgeons, 4 neuro radiologists and numerous other specialties sitting in on several multidisciplinary meetings discussing my case. In July they attempted re-coiling. However it was not successful as the opening was too wide and coils fell out..
In August went in again after a few more meetings, and re-coiled and stented the opening. I still have a piece of coil sticking out from annie as it is such a unusual shape. All went really well. This hospital knows aneurysms and basically every annie is sooo different and there is no one case the same. One of the risks of coiling is compacting or a small amount of blood flowing around the opening which evenutally goes into aneurysm causing it to grow, which happened to me
No doctor can tell you if it is going to happen or not. It is a risk with coiling. even with stent in this time, I am still at risk
Martin...did they explain the need for the stent placement when explaining the procedure to you?
I have such curiosity because, unless there is something quite new, the stents were approved to be used concomitant with coiling of a wide-neck aneurysm...not to be the final screen-door closure...
In all research I have done, I have not come across any facility that publishes the "usual/ordinary" use of those stents... Thanks for any info on this...
MartinC said:
Hi Em. I find this to be unusual, I had 2 coiled and stented at the same time last year, normally they coil the Aneurysm and then close the opening/mouth with a stent!
Mines were completely packed and the aneurysms were completely occluded as shown by recent scans.
Have they given you a reason as to why this has happened?
I suggest a long chat with the endovascular surgeon is called for.
I empathize with you and your mother. I experienced somthing similiar I went for my first MRA. I was told I needed an angiogram because the MRA showed that my coil was not completly filled. Once I had the angio I PRAYED the ENTIRE time on that table that I would not have to get my head cut open to "fix" the coil. I don't know if you and your mother beleive in the POWER of PRAYER but it worked for me because the angio showed a different picture than the MRA. I have had 2 MRA's since that time and so far I'm okay. I will pray for your mother and your family.
Keep advocating and asking questions for your mom, and I hope the best treatment and outcome for your mom and family.