Are there any signs before a rupture happens?

As one of many in the Watch & Wait group, what happened to you before the “explosion” changed your life? Knowing what to watch for would be helpful, so I would appreciate knowing what to expect. Here at BAF I have read about migraine triggers, “pops” and just passing out. I live alone, and would be very comforted by knowing other “triggers” that have saved lives. There is a generic list I check occasionally, but learning of other’s real life warning signs would be helpful, as that list may not be complete.

From the medical literature: Symptoms depend on the location of the aneurysm, whether it breaks open, and what part of the brain it is pushing on. Symptoms may include:

  • Double vision—I have had for years, eyeglass prescription now includes prism.
  • Loss of vision
  • Headaches—occasional, mild, one dose of 1000 mg Tylenol helps
  • Eye pain
  • Neck pain—occasional
  • Stiff neck–occasional
  • Ringing in the ears—pulsatile tinnitus, have had for years

A sudden, severe headache is one symptom of an aneurysm that has ruptured. Other symptoms of an aneurysm rupture may include:

  • Confusion, no energy, sleepiness, stupor, or coma
  • Eyelid drooping
  • Headaches with nausea or vomiting
  • Muscle weakness or difficulty moving any part of the body
  • Numbness or decreased sensation in any part of the body
  • Problems speaking
  • Seizures
  • Stiff neck (occasionally)
  • Vision changes (double vision, loss of vision)
  • Loss of consciousness

I don’t think about it much, but many other unrelated weird things are happening inside my brain, so maybe my subconscious is focusing on the aneurysm

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I’ve started a new topic for @Ralf taken from the welcomes of last week. I think this is a great topic and hope to read a lot of replies to what others experienced before they ruptured!

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I agree with @Moltroub, this is a great topic!

I guess I should start off by saying that my aneurysm is in a rarer location, on the PICA (Brain basics courtesy of the Niekro Aneurysm & AVM Foundation), so that may impact what happened to me.

I was at home, prepping for a charity event on a Saturday and was walking in between the kitchen and the living room. I tried to move my left leg (“walk!”), but my left leg wouldn’t do it! ??? Basically I was dragging it along, and I had no motor control over it.

Somehow, I got to my cell phone and called my parents, while sitting on the ground (basically I was crawling around at this point, pulling myself using my right side). O.k., yes, I know what I really was supposed to do, but I was in denial! :upside_down_face: Of course they told me, call 9-1-1, so I hung up with them, and then called 9-1-1. I told them that I was not able to move my left leg, and so of course, they were going to send someone right over.

At this point, I realized I am on the second floor, and that there was no way I could get down the stairs to the locked front door on the first floor. Surely any attempt I would make to do that would result in me falling down the stairs, and that does not seem like a wise strategy at this point! How would I unlock the door to let EMT in?? Even worse, the chain lock was still on the front door as I hadn’t yet left the house that day.

I knew all of my closest-distance family members were not in the immediate area at that time, and wouldn’t be able to get to the house anytime soon.

Aha! The pet-sitter has a key! Sure enough, I texted her, she was in the area, so I asked if she could come unlock the door for EMT.

And, that’s it! That is all I know. I passed out soon after that, even before EMT arrived. The next thing I knew was that I woke up 3 days later after being medevac’d from my local hospital to the parent hospital where their main neurosurgery unit is. They put me into a medically-induced coma during that time.

For me, notice I did NOT have the classic thunderclap headache - or indeed any headache. I do not recall any type of pain - eye, neck - nor do I recall any loss/change of vision. I did not have any ringing in the ears either (although I do not have tinnitus, I am prone to fainting, so I am very familiar with that sensation). From the inside of me, I did not notice any facial weakness or difficulty speaking but I appreciate that it is harder to tell if that is happening to you. :wink:

I have zero doubt that plenty of folks will chime in to describe the thunderclap headache they had, but from my understanding it is not like any normal headache that you and I have experienced.

It may be helpful to read this in the interim Mayo Clinic description.

Thunderclap headaches are dramatic. Symptoms include pain that:

  • Strikes suddenly and severely
  • Peaks within 60 seconds
  • Can be accompanied by nausea or vomiting

With apologies to BAF, I really was very tempted, but logically it made no sense. They recently had a fundraising drive in which they would send you a yard sign in advance of September (awareness month). Since my HOA doesn’t allow yard signs I wouldn’t be able to put it out, alas defeating the purpose. On this yard sign, BAF has a new HEAD Initiative which reminds everyone of the warnings signs of a rupture, so it seemed right to highlight that in case it is an easy mnemonic:

  • H = Headache
  • E = Eyes
  • A = Alertness
  • D = Dial 9-1-1

So, admittedly from my tiny little corner of the PICA world, a rupture is big, bad AND ugly. When it happens, you know something serious just happened, there is just no questioning of that, but I appreciate that others may have had radically different experiences.

Something you may want to consider is - IF - it should happen to you, in a similar way that it did to me, is how would someone get to you? Do you have enough trusted people around you who can get to you easily or help out EMT? What steps can you take in advance to prepare for the worst while hoping for the best?

Thanks again for asking and putting up with my rambling! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: Can’t wait to hear what others say!

Fin Whale Fan :whale:

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I experienced a rupture of a basilar tip aneurysm. I’d had a particularly busy day, it was particularly hot outside and I was in a particularly agitated mood because I was busy, it was hot and my daughter was due to start school the following day. I was standing in the kitchen buttering toast and without any warning felt a warm rush of liquid inside my head. I felt it first at the very top of my head and then at the back. There was no pain. There was just a sudden realisation that something was very, very wrong and I had presence of mind to sink to my knees with my head on the floor. I woke up some time later with my 75 year old mother bent over me smacking my cheek and calling my name, my 19 year old daughter asking what was wrong and I clearly recall being unable to open my eyes, or speak. It was then that I realised I had a terrible headache. I say terrible and not the worst because although it was the worst, I had experienced headaches like that before, “migraines”, the difference I would come to realise was this one did not budge, not even with the morphine they pumped me full of at the hospital. That headache arrived and stayed until a week after the coiling procedure.
In hindsight there are some things that stood out in the months and weeks leading up to the rupture which I have mentioned to my medical team and have been told may, or may not, have been attributable to the imminent rupture.
I have chronic headaches, daily and for years. Every so often I would get a particularly bad migraine if I did not treat a headache with enough urgency. I still get headaches, daily, but they feel entirely different to what I experienced prior to the rupture. I am tempted to say that I actually previously experienced migraines almost daily, and have not experienced one since.
I experienced ear and jaw pain in the weeks leading up to the rupture. Never felt it again since.
I experienced pressure behind my right eye - which I regularly complained of in weeks leading up to the rupture and I have only felt that same pressure since just before a focal seizure would start (I only had seizures after being discharged and they have since stopped, so has the pressure in my eye)
My right hand went numb on occasion prior to the rupture.

All this must be taken in the context that I was under extreme work pressure and stress in the months leading up to the rupture, I was sleeping very little and was living off energy drinks and boosters. There is also a suspicion amongst my doctors that I may well have had “leaks” in the months/years leading up to the eventual rupture, but there is no way to confirm this.

I have since the rupture never lit another cigarette, touched an energy drink or booster again. I was on leave for a full 6 months before returning to work a month ago where I strictly manage my work stress and the hours I work. I do still find I am very easily fatigued but I am not certain whether this is a side effect of recovery, or if I am now only realising how fatigued I always was from over-working myself.

Sadly, I don’t think there are any hard and fast warning signs of an impending rupture, much as there are often no symptoms of the presence of an aneurysm before it ruptures.

After what myself, and my family experienced when our lives were turned upside down by the rupture of an aneurysm I never knew I had, I would be very tempted to offer to anybody the simple advice of everybody should treat themselves as if there is an aneurysm waiting to rupture, don’t smoke, keep your blood pressure in check, no stress is worth dying for and energy drinks are a poison not worth risking your life for.

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Ralf, you’ve done a wonderful list of possibilities! I ruptured at the LICA bifurcation. I had no early warning signs. I know I was told it was a thunderclap headache but it felt like a lightening strike to me. Nope never been hit by lightening, but it was an extremely sharp pain that ran done my spine. Prior to my rupture I had stress headaches and eye strain headaches. The stress headache always gave me a knot on the right side of my neck right below my skull. Eye strain due to having so much documentation to do on the computer. I had a very stressful job, mostly due to changing politics in the office and the State and Federal government adding longer forms. I thank God and the Universe every day that I ruptured on my day off and not driving with someone else’s kids in my vehicle or even out on the road.

We have had many members who have shared they had sentinel bleeds prior to a rupture, I hope they come talk to us about their experiences. I’ve no idea what one feels like.

Thanks loads, your story is just the kind of input I am looking for. The H.E.A.D. mnemonic is great.

About the locked door (I live alone)–I keep the chain on, but it’s not locked or dead bolted so EMS can get in. Only the chain will break, then they can use the knob lock to secure the door. (I live in a very safe neighborhood, one of my requirements when I looked to move last year.)

Here in Winston Salem, NC they want you to use a “KnoxBox” for emergency entry. Approximately $249 and emergency responders have a master key. Don’t think I will do that, will see if other options are available, like realty lock box.

My 91 year old mother fell and broke her pelvis last year and the EMTs had to break her condo door in (lock & deadbolt). No “EMS key box” anywhere in her complex. Expensive and time consuming to replace! (She at some point had “infantry crawl” training which got her to the phone, but not up high enough to unbolt her door.) Moved to assisted living in April.

Someone replied to your post.

| FinWhaleFan
August 8 |

  • | - |

I agree with @Moltroub, this is a great topic!

I guess I should start off by saying that my aneurysm is in a rarer location, on the PICA (Brain basics courtesy of the Niekro Aneurysm & AVM Foundation), so that may impact what happened to me.

I was at home, prepping for a charity event on a Saturday and was walking in between the kitchen and the living room. I tried to move my left leg (“walk!”), but my left leg wouldn’t do it! ??? Basically I was dragging it along, and I had no motor control over it.

Somehow, I got to my cell phone and called my parents, while sitting on the ground (basically I was crawling around at this point, pulling myself using my right side). O.k., yes, I know what I really was supposed to do, but I was in denial! :upside_down_face:Of course they told me, call 9-1-1, so I hung up with them, and then called 9-1-1. I told them that I was not able to move my left leg, and so of course, they were going to send someone right over.

At this point, I realized I am on the second floor, and that there was no way I could get down the stairs to the locked front door on the first floor. Surely any attempt I would make to do that would result in me falling down the stairs, and that does not seem like a wise strategy at this point! How would I unlock the door to let EMT in?? Even worse, the chain lock was still on the front door as I hadn’t yet left the house that day.

I knew all of my closest-distance family members were not in the immediate area at that time, and wouldn’t be able to get to the house anytime soon.

Aha! The pet-sitter has a key! Sure enough, I texted her, she was in the area, so I asked if she could come unlock the door for EMT.

And, that’s it! That is all I know. I passed out soon after that, even before EMT arrived. The next thing I knew was that I woke up 3 days later after being medevac’d from my local hospital to the parent hospital where their main neurosurgery unit is. They put me into a medically-induced coma during that time.

For me, notice I did NOT have the classic thunderclap headache - or indeed any headache. I do not recall any type of pain - eye, neck - nor do I recall any loss/change of vision. I did not have any ringing in the ears either (although I do not have tinnitus, I am prone to fainting, so I am very familiar with that sensation). From the inside of me, I did not notice any facial weakness or difficulty speaking but I appreciate that it is harder to tell if that is happening to you. :wink:

I have zero doubt that plenty of folks will chime in to describe the thunderclap headache they had, but from my understanding it is not like any normal headache that you and I have experienced.

It may be helpful to read this in the interim Mayo Clinic description.

Thunderclap headaches are dramatic. Symptoms include pain that:

  • Strikes suddenly and severely
  • Peaks within 60 seconds
  • Can be accompanied by nausea or vomiting

With apologies to BAF, I really was very tempted, but logically it made no sense. They recently had a fundraising drive in which they would send you a yard sign in advance of September (awareness month). Since my HOA doesn’t allow yard signs I wouldn’t be able to put it out, alas defeating the purpose. On this yard sign, BAF has a new HEAD Initiative which reminds everyone of the warnings signs of a rupture, so it seemed right to highlight that in case it is an easy mnemonic:

  • H = Headache
  • E = Eyes
  • A = Alertness
  • D = Dial 9-1-1

So, admittedly from my tiny little corner of the PICA world, a rupture is big, bad AND ugly. When it happens, you know something serious just happened, there is just no questioning of that, but I appreciate that others may have had radically different experiences.

Something you may want to consider is - IF - it should happen to you, in a similar way that it did to me, is how would someone get to you? Do you have enough trusted people around you who can get to you easily or help out EMT? What steps can you take in advance to prepare for the worst while hoping for the best?

Thanks again for asking and putting up with my rambling! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:Can’t wait to hear what others say!

Fin Whale Fan :whale:

Thanks. The absence of the thunderclap headache is the kind of info I am looking for. Earlier warning signs would help me call for help sooner.

Thanks, more good info. Still trying to get a better handle on “sentinel bleeds” versus thunderclaps. I’ll also watch for “lightning strike” pain anywhere in my body. (As opposed to my on/off chronic pains all over.)

Seeing the doctor on Aug. 31 and will ask why my BP lately is averaging 10 points above my normal reading. And to check my cholesterol, etc. after starting statin. But my PHASE score is good. (https://reference.medscape.com/calculator/464/phases-score#)

100% right!!

Because I was having home health aides come in and out post rupture, my family put a realty lock box on my door. Although I no longer have any health aides, I still keep it on the door for that very reason - EMS - so that solves the main issues. If the police need to cut the chain lock next time again, well so be it!

Fin Whale Fan :whale:

That “lightning strike” was my aneurysm rupturing. I wouldn’t count it as knowing well in advance. The doctors all called it a thunderclap headache BH just told me. I haven’t found anything yet that scientifically confirms any symptoms prior to a rupture.

Of course I read that you don’t want to spend the $249 for Emergency Responders to have easy access to the lock. I read where you and @FinWhaleFan discussed a realtor lock box. When we had one on the house we were buying and the one we sold it was a combination tumbler that the correct numbers had to be put in. How can First Responders access the house key without knowing the combination?

Another question came into my brain about the chain locks. Granted I haven’t worked in a very long time now but in our area police often get to a home before EMS or the big fire truck (I’ve never figured out the fire truck responding if there’s not a fire) but I have seen the police just kick in the door. I’ve never seen them use a tool. If it’s just the chain, depending on the molding and if just the little screws that came in the package was used or longer screws that actually screwed into the frame would depend on how much damage incurs. You may have to just putty the molding and repaint, you might have to replace the piece if it was a finger joint or MDF molding.

Side note to other members - If anyone has a dog, they may get maced so the First Responders can get to you. It was my argument with the Dispatcher who kept telling me to sit down and wait. The fear of our old Lab being maced was greater than my fear of dying. I was extremely lucky to make it out the front door and even more fortunate that the very first First Responder understood I was doing relaxation breathing with a focus point on the ceiling of the front porch. He helped me keep count because I would loose my counting and he pushed the EMS female out of the focal point I was fixated on. Much later I found out he was an ER RN at the local hospital!

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Fire companies are often the closest emergency facilities. They may/may not have EMS personnel assigned, but they are trained to help with medical emergencies until EMS arrives. (Former Pittsburgh Public Safety employee here.)

Lock box–I am a tenant and not sure if I can get landlord to approve installation of key box.

Dogs (cats?)–good advice. I don’t have any.

P.S. to your hummingbird story. Here I have heard, but not seen, the “ratchet tool” sounding bird. Apparently it is a Carolina Wren or Northern Flicker? Just happy that the dozens of crows have moved away!

You know I’m not a fan of crows! ROFLOL. I will definitely go to YouTube to see if I can find the sound you hear. We have a lot of Carolina Wrens and the do have a song but I’m not sure its ratcheting. The ratcheting sound I’m hearing right now are the Cicadas I think. There’s so many we can’t hear the tree frogs!

It’s so interesting the difference in First Responders in big cities and small towns! One of my great nephews became a firefighter in California and yes he did take first aide training just to be a firefighter. He is now in his EMS training. Apparently where he lives, they have to be trained as firefighters first before the rest. I’ve forgotten how many different certifications it takes but it’s a lot. We have a friend who went to the local junior college to become an EMT and didn’t have to have much if any firefighting training.

I would venture to guess that the landlord would have to approve of the box for Emergency Services. But definitely something I would ask the Fire Department first since that sounds like the place you will buy it from as there’s probably a NCGS that covers it and they’d know before your landlord. I imagine it’s something you can take with you if you ever move.

Admittedly, it isn’t perfect, but I figure it is better than the system I had before when I didn’t even have a plan. :zany_face: My plan is to give them the code when I call 9-1-1 next time … of course I recognize I need to be cognizant to do that, but again, better than I had before.

Admittedly, I was out of it, but I am highly suspicious that the police cut the chain lock - mostly because the chain literally was in half when I returned home. I had my guys replace the chain lock by removing the old one and installing a new one. Thanks for the tip about the pets: you now make me super curious what my cat was doing when I was out cold - oh for the ability to travel back in time and see what happened!

Thanks - as always - for the advice!!

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@Ralf As promised I’ve found some websites but no studies yet https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/brain-aneurysm/symptoms-causes/syc-20361483 discusses large aneurysms pressing on nerves, etc that can cause issues and explains aneurysms that leak. Similar symptoms here Brain Aneurysm: What It Is, Causes, Symptoms & Treatment

This a review not a study and I want to add both patients died due to their rupture in case anyone doesn’t want to read it. The review encourages doctors to look into headaches further Warning Signs in the Era of Unruptured Intracranial Aneurysms: Report on 2 Cases of Fatal Aneurysmal Hemorrhage - PMC

This is a study pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is the PHASES score Client Challenge as a side note if I had this done I would not be a concern for experiencing a rupture except for the type of aneurysm I have which this doesn’t account for

I wonder if it’s a difference in what more populated areas require than less? Next time the deputy who comes by every now and then to chat, I will ask him what’s in his kit. I did see a YouTube video what a Fire Department carries. It was a little on the scary side how quickly they can enter a hotel room and what he used…https://youtu.be/3xiNLetHmdY?is=Csl7lpqf9ZgVfQHk